Chaos Terminators

Well the Chaos Terminators arrived quickly, all six of them. They are as you can see second edition and need a lot of work on them to make them, presentable. The Chaos Lord’s sword snapped as the packaging was very so-so, but it is nothing superglue cannot fix.


Having ploughed through my list it seems that I have fifty-five points to spend on upgrades for the Chaos Terminators, although this includes the price of a Banner of Slaanesh. The fires themselves provide me with two chainfists, a powerfist and two combi-flamers. I would not normally consider the combi-flamers, and will try to see if I can convert them to combi-plasma guns with some of the bits I have floating around. With the points left I can either take two chainfists or three powerfists, if I had Lightening Claws available I would consider them but I do not have anything suitable to substitute for them. Given I am taking the Banner of Slaanesh the pair of Chainfists wins as I want something that can punch through Dreadnought or even Landraider armour.

Now should I be thinking a pair of combi-meltas and not combi-plasmas..?

Part 2

Having now got to grips with the Chaos Terminators I have taken off all the arms, trophy racks and rebased them on the correct bases I can now revise what I have and what I am going to do with them. I have a third combi-flamer and am now more inclined to keep the powerfist as well. Instead of spending (or wasting) the 15 points on a Banner of Slaanesh I am instead going to use those points to keep the Powerfist and extra combi-weapon which I think will instead be combi-plasma. Rapid firing six shots should give me three kills; I would need eighteen hits with the three combi-flamers to make the same kill ratio against T4 3+ save.

A List for Skalathrax?

So pouring over my list of wants in the last post I have completed what will hopefully be my 1.5k list to do battle next week on Skalathrax, I just need the Chaos Terminators to turn up in the post and to get busy building and painting the figures. I am sure as I get closer to the day I will make changes based on what I have, but then again we always used to read that excuse for the player losing the Battle of the Month in White Dwarf…

Chaos Lord (Mark of Slaanesh, Terminator Armour)
125 points

I had wanted to take six Terminators as an Elite squad and a Sorcerer as a HQ but the need to spread the points thinly means that a cheap HQ is necessary and I can save the 30 points from the Elite choice.

5 Chaos Terminators (Banner of Slaanesh)
165 points

I will have points left over after completing this list and they will be spent on Chaos Terminator upgrades. From the pics of the Terminators they seem to have a number of combi-flamers which I will be converting into combi-meltas or combi-plasmas, I may even splash the points for a Reaper Autocannon. A powerfist or two to deal with Dreadnoughts is a must for the squad.

Chaos Dreadnought (Twin-link Lascannon)
125 points

Chaos Dreadnought (Twin-link Autocannon)
125 points

These will be my premium anti Chaos Rhino units, with options to thin the Chaos Dreadnoughts if I feel they are getting too close. I will be relying on true line of sight and hopefully a 4+ cover save to keep these alive as long as possible. If taking a shot means certain death for one of these then they will duck back and wait until next turn.

6 Noise Marines (Aspiring Champion, Doom Siren)
150 points

6 Noise Marines (Aspiring Champion, Doom Siren)
150 points

Again keeping this simple there job is to flame the enemy and charge the remnants of the squad. I know there is a lack of power weapon on the Aspiring Champion, and special weapon in the squad but I am short of points and want to keep ten units plus the HQ in the army. The Power Weapon is only worth fractions of a kill needing a 4 and a 4 to kill so I will pray to the dice gods.

6 Chaos Space Marines (Melta Gun or Plasma Gun or Plasma Pistol)
100 or 105 points

6 Chaos Space Marines (Melta Gun or Plasma Gun or Plasma Pistol)
100 or 105 points

Depending on what I feel like building, or more accurately can find in my bits box these two squads will be built with what I can lay my hands on. The only reason I have not decided on a flamer is that I want the weapon to have a little punch if I need to crack open a Chaos Rhino or Dreadnought.

6 Havocs (3 Plasma Guns)
135 points

My heavy hitters that will have to be in the right place at the right time to face Chaos Bikers or Terminators. I managed to fell a Chaos Lord with the same unit last week so I am hopeful that I will not be rolling many 1’s. I can also use the 24” range to ping Chaos Rhinos; I will wait until rapid fire range to chance Chaos Dreadnoughts.

6 Havocs (2 Missile Launchers, 2 Melta Guns)
150 points

6 Havocs (2 Missile Launchers, 2 Melta Guns)
150 points

I am expecting big things from this most strange unit. Two long range and two short range weapons is a combination I have not seen in a list anywhere and probably with good reason. With Night Fight taking place on turns five and six the melta guns will allow me to advance and give close support where needed, the missile launchers shooting anything they can see for the first four turns. If somehow the building they are hiding in gets assaulted I should be able to fire both launchers and melta guns at the squad first to thin their numbers.

I should have around 25 points left to be spent on Chaos Terminator upgrades; if I run short then I will lose a melta gun from the Havoc Squads. Fingers crossed…

Live and Let Die

Pondering how I can make my earlier victory with The Purge against World Eaters work for my Emperors Children and the upcoming battles of Skalathrax.  I cannot understand how I won that battle and yet lost the original game.  I am certain that despite better dice rolls in the second game, the World Eater player had a better strategy for the first battle.  The two armies despite the differences in points both looked similar, just fewer units.  As I was using my own list this time around I had more units in my list and at times was able to sacrifice one squad to save another or double team an opposing squad.  Suddenly a light bulb grows dim above my head…

Previously I faced six squads of Berserkers in Chaos Rhinos led by Kharn.  There were two large bike squads with Icon (of Khorne) and Aspirings, three Chaos Dreadnoughts a small squad of Chaos Terminators and a Chaos Lord with all the trimmings.  By my reckoning that makes thirteen squads in 3k points, my 1.5k list with The Purge had eleven units, although one of these was a 40 point Chaos Spawn.  So ten units in 1.5k points means that I should be able to double-up on fighting squads, or sacrifice a few to save the many.

Taking smaller units means that I will have to split my forces into those that crack open the transport vehicles and those that deal with the contents.  I am thinking three squads to crack open the armour and two squads of heavy infantry killers (plasma gunners).  I will avoid a Greater Daemon this time around due to wanting to slow the enemy down and not engage in close combat until as late as possible in the battle, fourth turn if I can manage it.

Off the top of my head I will be looking at:

Close Combat
Chaos Lord in Terminator armour
5 Chaos Terminators
6 Noise Marines (Aspiring with Doom Siren)
6 Noise Marines (Aspiring with Doom Siren)
6 Chaos Space Marines (with plasma pistol or melta gun)
6 Chaos Space Marines (with plasma pistol or melta gun)

Firepower
Chaos Dreadnought (Lascannon)
Chaos Dreadnought (Autocannon)
6 Havocs (3 Missile Launchers)
6 Havocs (3 Plasma Guns)
2 Obliterators

I will also hope to add a pair of Chaos Rhinos to the list as mobile cover, or to redeploy the squads as needed.  I will not be taking the customary Aspiring in each squad as the 30 point premium for Aspiring with power weapon is only marginally worth it; I need more warm bodies on the table.

Battle of Skalathrax

My battle last week was supposed to be Battle of Skalathrax, Lucius versus Kharn. Four players in a 3k battle based in a city, the side that captured the most buildings won. Circumstance (the wife) saw to it that I arrived very late for the game so instead it became a straight-up fight between World Eaters led by Kharn against Emperors Children led by Lucius. As I arrived so late the table had been set up and the players were almost through their first turn. As such there was little I could do to influence the end result of the battle, victory for Khorne and his World Eaters. Lucius bought the big one at the end of a Dreadnought’s Powerfist; Kharn ran into a Greater Daemon and failed three out of four invulnerable saves.

We will re-fight this battle in a city with better rules, but it made me think Beserker Marine versus Noise Marine, who is the winner? For 21 points a World Eater has WS5, so hits on a 3+ and furious charge giving it an effective S5 and I5 and fearless all for 21 points. Against him for 20 points the Noise Marine has I5, if he does not get the charge then they strike simultaneously and he too is fearless. It is no contest the Beserker wins hands down; I do not see how they pointed the two figures on the same matrix. A Noise Marine can be upgraded to carry a Sonic Blaster S4 Assualt2, which effectively means that at over 12” he gains a second shot, and if he wants to assault that turn gains a second shot, all for the princely sum of 5 extra points. If it were included in the price of the Marine perhaps it would be a worthy addition, as it is not it just becomes and overprices weapon for an already overpriced model.

So what can be done in the Battle of Skalanthrax to make the two sides more even? What can the Emperors children take to make more competitive? In short nothing until the Chaos Codex is updated in 2012, so I need to look at what went wrong last time and try to secure a fix. The biggest weakness of the Emperors Children list was the lack of anti-tank weapons. My compatriot player was playing Noise Marines without any Sonic Weapons, however apart from the odd plasma pistol there were no weapons to punch through the armour of the three Chaos Dreadnoughts or six Chaos Rhinos. The single Destructor class Chaos Predator failed to stop a single Chaos Rhino and only managed to destroy a single Chaos Dreadnought. The second Chaos Dreadnought died a mutual death against our Chaos Dreadnought with a Plasma Cannon, the third killed Lucius. My forces were mostly Noise Marines with Sonic and Blast weapons, and I was wasting shots at Chaos Rhinos that ignored my damage rolls due to extra armour.

I will have to blow the dust off my two Chaos Dreadnoughts and equip a Chosen squad to tackle something in armour, lots of plasma guns or meltaguns. Squads should all carry a special weapon of some sort to penetrate armour, preferably an extra one with the Aspiring. I will take two squads at ten men with two special weapons, taking a heavy weapon I wasting the squad just like when I was firing the Blastmaster at a Chaos Rhino.

Well I have a few ideas to get me going now; I just need to dig out all the Chaos Marine torsos I have kept for just such a purpose and get building them asap. They will be more to come with potential armylists and complaints over lack of heavy weapons in the army.

Daemon Prince in Plastic

It’s true the flesh is weak, or is it the mind is weak, either way I gave in and bought the new plastic Daemon Prince without giving it the once over either online or perusing the current White Dwarf. Normally the latest issue of White Dwarf would be in my clammy paws last Thursday of the month, despite reservations over quality, however as a strict W40K fan I cannot justify buying the magazine if it contains nothing of interest to me: last issue nothing, this issue a background article on Chaos Daemons and a How to Play Chaos Daemons. I will probably pick up a copy on EBay in a month or three.

So I have my Daemon Prince out of the box and I am surprised at the lack of options on the sprue, I realise that the kit is two years old (so the internet tells me) but I was hoping for more options for each of the four Chaos Powers, well any options would be an improvement.

Contents are: one set of legs that are similar to the old WFB Daemon Prince legs. I understand that GW did not want to have two sets of legs as people could build two Daemon Princes from the kit, but more armoured greaves than the two provided, perhaps looking vaguely power armoured. Instead we have decidedly WFB looking greaves to go over the chicken legs provided, what happened to the muscle? We have three heads to choose, horns pointing up, horns pointing sideways and horns pointing down. I will avoid the horny devil joke. We have a tail and three body segments, a generic (re: naked) back and a power armoured (W40K) and a naked (WFB) front.

Arms get their own paragraph as we have seven to choose. I do like the pair of Chaos Space Marine looking claws, well armoured and very talon looking. Next we have three right hand containing, sword, bigger sword and axe. All are okay and definitely usable or convertible. The last arm is a lefty and unfortunately it is empty, I would have preferred an additional arm with say a sword for a lefty and an empty right hand just to shake-up the look of the figure. I think a conversion is on the way…

Other bits we get are a pair of wings, Chaos Space Marine backpack exhausts or generic spikes to insert into the back of the Daemon Prince. As well as the aforementioned greaves we get two armoured tabards, one each for W40K and WFB. We also provided are a pair of Chaos Space Marine shoulder pads and a WFB shoulder guard with chaos horn. Last and but least a set of generic chaos spikes, or an Iron Halo effect.

So having sucked in my disappointment what do I think? Well whilst I know GW can and have done better there are enough parts here for me to play with to build a pair of Daemon Princes. My initial Daemon Prince will be a regular fellow with all the Chaos Space Marine parts that I can lay my hands on, so will include W40K torso, generic back, Chaos Space Marine arms and shoulder pads, with regular legs and W40K tabard. Instead of Chaos Space Marine backpack vents I will take the spikes and de-horn one of the heads, or do something with the WFB horn. This will be a Flawless Host Daemon Prince as it seems appropriate to have a Daemon Prince lead a small warband of them.

The second Daemon Prince will use most of the remaining parts, I am hoping to make a Daemon Prince with a serpentine body, so will be using tail and naked WFB torso. I want an old style three-armed beast so will be using both sword arms and the left arm will be converted to hold a sword. I will be adding wings and anything WFB based even though I will be using the Daemon Prince in W40K.
Now where did I put that greenstuff..?

Then and Now: Emperors Children Part 2

It is going to be an impossible task to try to recreate the Emperor’s Children Armylist from my previous blog using the 4.0 Chaos Codex.  With no free Aspiring Champions, cheap Power Weapons, low cost Blast Masters, even the Chaos Predators will be more expensive, I will be looking at a 2000 point list matching this army squad for squad.

I still want to play the army in the guise provided a foot based Sonic Blaster/ Blast Master force.  I will be avoiding Chaos Rhinos and taking a Chaos Sorcerer and Chaos Lord to replace the two Lieutenants.  So what I will do is lose the Lesser Daemons and prune everywhere else to shore up the pointage.  I will have the feel of the previous list without the effectiveness or point cost.

As is usual for me I start with heavies and work my way toward the HQ:

6 Chaos Havocs (3 Autocannons, Banner of Slaanesh) 170 points

Chaos Predator (Twin-link Lascannon, Sponson Lascannons) 155 points

Chaos Predator (Twin-link Lascannon, Sponson Lascannons, Daemonic Possession) 175 points

My firepower is reduced slightly as I will be missing the strength 8 shot single shots and having two at strength 7.  I will miss the opportunity of a strength 5 blast, but perhaps will hit more the multiple shots.  Perhaps the biggest regret is that the squad has to stand still to fire, but we take it on the chin, and make sure I place the squad in cover.  Noise Marines could have pumped out great anti-personal fire with the Sonic Blasters but instead the Autocannons will be useful against transports due to sheer number of shots, if the dice are kind to me…

6 Noise Marines (Blastmaster, 5 Sonic Blasters) 185 points

6 Noise Marines (Blastmaster, 5 Sonic Blasters) 185 points

Keeping the squads cheap and cheerful I will be missing the effectiveness of a power weapon/ fist Aspiring Champion but the squad will be mobile and small enough to hide behind terrain whilst sniping squads.

6 Noise Marines (6 Sonic Blasters, Aspiring Champion, Powerfist) 190 points

6 Noise Marines (6 Sonic Blasters, Aspiring Champion, Power Weapon) 180 points

Aping the previous list I have chosen a Powerfist squad and a power weapon squad again trying the keep the point down I have dropped the associated Blast Masters meaning I have spent around half my points on the four squads.  I could add Aspirings into the two other squads and take a small squad of Lesser Daemons if I drop one of my HQ units so I know I will have options in the future.

Having now spent 1240 points I have 260 points to purchase my two characters, a Chaos Sorcerer and Chaos Lord.  Mindful of the few points I have remaining:

Chaos Lord (Daemon Weapon, Mark of Slaanesh) 135 points

Chaos Sorcerer (Lash of Submission, Mark of Slaanesh) 125 points

Well not many points spent on either figure, but unless they smite an equivalent HQ type figure they will always struggle to get their points back.  Dropping the Chaos Lord I can fit the following as options into the list:

5 Lesser Daemons 65 points

Aspiring Champion (Power Weapon) 30 points
Aspiring Champion (Powerfist) 40 points

I can always just take two Aspirings with power weapons if I drop the Sorcerer.

Then and Now: Emperors Children Part 1

One of the two armylists that I want to breakdown and convert is the Showcase Emperor’s Children army from White Dwarf issue 391.  This won Best Painted Army in the GW Dutch Grand Tournament; whilst commendable I am more interested in how it performs on the battlefield as I have lack the requisite ability or time to make mine look as pretty.

Designed to fight in 4th edition against a more limited transport metagame than 5th and to take advantage of the reduced close combat effectiveness from the previous 3rd edition there is plenty of firepower and some limited close combat efficacy.  Basic squads with Sonic Blasters and Blastmaster throwing out 15 strength 4 shots and a strength 8 template can whittle down hordes and sheer numbers of dice will wilt even 3+ armies, or so it is hoped.

Only having the six pages of photos to look at, I can only guestimate what his 1.5k actually looks like in an armylist format but hopefully I should be able to figure out from the pictures and comments I have available.  Time to dig out my 3.5 edition Chaos Codex…

6 Chaos Space Marines (Blastmaster, Mark of Slaanesh , 5 Sonic Blasters, Aspiring Champion, Power Weapon) 159 points

6 Chaos Space Marines (Blastmaster, Mark of Slaanesh , 5 Sonic Blasters, Aspiring Champion, Power Weapon) 159 points

Two squads with free Aspirings, cheap power weapons and bargain Blastmaster, they can advance or fallback whilst still maintaining great firepower and if they get jumped in close combat they should fell one or two 3+ save enemies, or two or three on the charge.  If GW packaged these without the need to purchase bits from the online shop I am sure we would see more of them on the battlefield.

6 Chaos Space Marines (Blastmaster, Mark of Slaanesh, 5 Sonic Blasters, Aspiring Champion, Powerfist) 164 points

6 Chaos Space Marines (Blastmaster, Mark of Slaanesh, 5 Sonic Blasters, Aspiring Champion, Powerfist) 164 points

Two squads with Powerfists are backing up the Power Weapon squads.  The last thing you need is for a squad to be caught fighting a Dreadnought or T6 beastie in close combat.  I always find the threat of a powerfist will keep the Dreadnoughts at bay, and against the T6 beasties well at least you can introduce it to Mr Pain ™ before the models cumple.

6 Daemonettes 90 points

My favourite unit in the previous Codex is a squad of Daemonettes; the all important deep striking, rending, death machines.  Able to deep strike,  move and assault they can take care of any vehicle that has not moved or with a decent charge angle kill four 3+ enemies on the charge and not lose any models in return as the enemy did not pile in before the dice are rolled.

Moving on to the three Heavy choices as once they are pointed I can see what is left to purchase the two Chaos Lieutenants.  We have a six-man Havoc squad and two Chaos Predators:

6 Chaos Havocs (3 Blastmasters, Mark of Slaanesh, 3 Sonic Blasters, Aspiring Champion, Power Weapon) 199 points

Chaos Predator (Twin-link Lascannon, Sponson Lascannons) 145 points

Chaos Predator (Twin-link Lascannon, Sponson Lascannons, Daemonic Possession) 165 points

Having now spent 1245 points I have 255 points to purchase my two Chaos Lieutenants.  I have limited information on both Lieutenants but having listed their equipment and options I still had a few points remaining.  Back in the day a Mark of Slaanesh gave you +1 attack as opposed to an increased initiative so I gave both LT’s Daemonic Mutation for an extra attack.  Daemonic Strength to the LT without the Dark Blade and with my final points a Melta Bombs for each LT.

Chaos Lieutenant (Bolt Pistol, Chaos Hound, Daemonic Mutation, Daemonic Speed, Dark Blade, Mark of Slaanesh, Melta Bombs) 128 points

Chaos Lieutenant (Close Combat Weapon, Combat Drugs, Daemonic Mutation, Daemonic Strength, Mark of Slaanesh, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon) 126 points

Doomrider

Back in third edition a special character for Slaanesh was created called Doomrider.  He is not listed as being an Emperor’s Child, only that he was elevated to daemonhood by Slaanesh.  A quick run through of his stats, wargear and special rules follows, hoping that I have not treaded on Games Workshops toes, or broken any copyrights…

WS    BS    S    T    W    I    A    Ld    Sv
 6        5      5    5     3     5    4    10    4+

Wargear: Chaos Space Marine Bike with twin-linked meltagun, plasma gun, bolt pistol, power weapon.

Special Rules:
Wheels of Fire: Moves as if it had a jump pack.
Invulnerable: Save treated as invulnerable.
Summoned: Arrives on table as reserves like Daemons.
He comes, He goes: On a roll of 1 he disappears from the battle.

Points: 150


Trying to convert above character to 5th edition is a near impossible task, using the 3.1 Chaos Codex I could come close to getting a similar character but with the limited options in 4.0 Chaos Codex I am struggling.  My version of Doomrider will simply be a Chaos Lord on a bike with a plasma pistol.  I could also add a combi-weapon but I feel the option of three ranged weapons a little too much, especially as it does not have Eternal Warrior or a natural Toughness of 5. 

In regards to the special rules, the Chaos Space Marine Bike has turbo-boost that could be considered to have superior movement to a jump pack.  As Doomrider is an Independent Character he has the Skilled Rider skill which should help moving through rather than over terrain.  I am still curious as to why the model is listed as only having a 4+ save when it is clearly in power armour, I will rely on my 3+/ 5++ save or I can turbo-boost for a 3++ save.  So with two ticks in my favour I will lose out on being summoned to the table, I cannot give the model Scout that would have been similar so I lose out on this uniqueness.  However I also lose out on the leaving the table halfway through the battle so I suppose it evens up.


WS    BS    S    T       W    I    A    Ld    Sv
 6        5      4    4 (5)   3    5    4    10     3+ / 5++

Wargear: Chaos Space Marine Bike, Plasma Pistol, Daemon Weapon, Personal Icon.

Points: 180

I can always run a cheaper less effective Doomrider by substituting the Daemon Weapon for a Power Weapon and dropping the Plasma Pistol, cutting down the pointage to 140 points.